Martin Johnson has just announced the two England squads for the coming season.
I’ve only scanned the list so far, but spotted Jonny Wilkinson on the end of the EPS list, with Danny Cipriani in the Saxons. Nick Kennedy and Paul Sackey are also dropped to the Saxons.
James Haskell isn’t on either list…
What are your thoughts? Does this actually matter?
ENGLAND SENIOR ELITE PLAYER SQUAD:
FORWARDS (18)
Steffon Armitage (London Irish)
Steve Borthwick (Saracens)
George Chuter (Leicester Tigers)
Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Ben Kay (Leicester Tigers)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Tim Payne (London Wasps)
Tom Rees (London Wasps)
Simon Shaw (London Wasps)
Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks)
Phil Vickery (London Wasps)
Julian White (Leicester Tigers)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Joe Worsley (London Wasps)
BACKS (14)
Delon Armitage (London Irish)
Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks)
Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Riki Flutey (CA Brive)
Dan Hipkiss (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Hodgson (London Irish)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Olly Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Mathew Tait (Sale Sharks)
Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby)
Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon)
ENGLAND SAXONS SQUAD
FORWARDS (17)
Richard Blaze (Leicester Tigers)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Nick Kennedy (London Irish)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Matthew Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Tom Mercey (Saracens)
Lewis Moody (Leicester Tigers)
Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby)
David Paice (London Irish)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Will Skinner (Harlequins)
George Skivington (London Wasps)
Dan Ward-Smith (London Wasps)
Rob Webber (London Wasps)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
Ben Woods (Leicester Tigers)
BACKS (15)
Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Danny Cipriani (London Wasps)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Shane Geraghty (Northampton Saints)
Topsy Ojo (London Irish)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Paul Sackey (London Wasps)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
David Strettle (Harlequins)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Sam Vesty (Leicester Tigers)
Dominic Waldouck (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Sale Sharks)
Micky Young (Newcastle Falcons)
Ok, now I’ve openly criticised Johnno for his selections in the past and to be fair I don’t understand a few choices this time round i.e. Kennedy (by far our best 2nd row) dropped to the saxons, inclusion of Tindall in the EPS (has not been playing good rugby for years), Wilko (let the bloke get some proper game time and rebuild his confidence before asking him to save us yet again), Borthwick (not even going to bother commenting). This said, since Johnno took over last July he has produced 5 out of 11 wins. Doesn’t sound like much does it? Well if you remember, when Johnno took over we were a team that had hit rock bottom – we weren’t winning anything, we weren’t playing good rugby, we were scoring try’s, we had no game plan, no confidence in the squad/coaches etc etc and we stood no chance against any team. Of the 6 loses, 3 of them we nearly won (Wales, Ireland, Argentina). In the 6 Nations, we were top try scorers, conceded the last amount of points and finished 2nd. I would agree in saying that the team selection doesn’t look overly dynamic, but at the same time, Johnno is getting results. You don’t have to have the worlds best 15 players in the team to be the best – you have to have 15 players that play the best as a team to be the best (2003 is a great example). As for who is in which squad – remember that these squads get updated constantly and that the chances of the squads staying this way for a full season is near impossible. Personally think its time to start giving a little support towards our team and manager
Tommy please, johnno’s progress is based solely on two games; one against France, who were dreadful, the other against Scotland, who were not much better. 5-11 is not satisfactory for me, nowhere close, it is less than 50%. Our expectations must be higher. As for the 6N finishing, 2nd, I hope you don’t emply that England are the second best team in the NH. They scored lots of points in those two amazing matches which benefited them greatly in a very close year. It is clear from the Lions tour that the talent in Isles is being produced in Wales and Ireland and they are in fact the two strongest teams. France on their day can beat anybody and have talent to burn, but hey that is what France always are.
The two most disappointing things to come out of this summer is that firstly England young players aren’t good enough to do it at this level, secondly the lions showed us that other than Croft the only England players that are still world class are well beyond their sell by date and will surely not be around for the next world cup.
I am not saying that he should throw every kid into the mix but he has to try a few; he should use the 9 lions as a backbone for the team, I consider Armitage a world class player as well he was unlucky not go on tour as he plays in a very strong position. That is 10 solid players who will compete at this level outstandingly; most of them have experience also. The other 5 positions should be used as a development platform.
Just out of curiosity, what would you say is satisfactory for you then? I get the impression that people are still stuck in the glory days 2003 and expect England to win every game by 100 points – if England don’t win every game, then it is a poor performance and heads should roll.
I completely agree that 5 wins out of 11 should not acceptable – but remember the fact (as I’ve already stated) that we were a team that hit rock bottom. It will take time to be the best again.
As for Wales and Ireland producing the best players at the moment, your right they are. Now put into the equation the fact that in the 6 nations we only lost to wales by 8 points and Ireland by 1 point. Yes we should have won those games, but considering how much better you seem to think both Wales and Ireland are than us, I would consider that quite positive.
I see from previous statements from you that “Foden, Geraghty, Kennedy, Robshaw; these are the guys of the future”, but yet only Kennedy features in “your england team”. Another one of your comments is “we desperately need and explosive N8 the sluggish Dean Richards style player is not being used anymore, you need an explosive athlete at the back”, but yet you have Easter in “your england team”. Another comment is “I’m all for having some experience in the team to help develop the young boys but to have Kay and Shaw in the second row and Kennedy in the Saxons is a joke”, but yet Shaw is in “your england team” along with Kennedy. Personally think your comments are a little hypocriticial.
Strangely though, with who Johnno has selected for the EPS, “my team” is very similiar. Wouldn’t say this is my ideal team at all, but it is with the players available within the EPS.
15. Armitage
14. Banahan
13. Hipkiss
12. Flutey
11. Monye
10. Flood/Wilko
9. Ellis
8. Easter
7. Armitage
6. Croft
5. Shaw
4. Crane
3. Vickery
2. Mears
1. Sheridan
16. Hartley
17. Wilson
18. Rees
19. Care
20. Flood/Wilko
21. Tait
22. Morgan