The churchuill cup oppistion has been frankly dross and how crane can be compared on that basis i dont know.

Dean Ryan made the comment that england should be looking for an alternative option @ 8 to help change games in NZ, rather than looking for a player (jordan Crane) who is essentially a poor mans nick easter.

How good does Tom Johnson look!!

Crusaders are my bet. Maybe Stormers.

Billy’s slightly younger than Mako (BV is 18 and MV is 20) and plays back row, as opposed to Mako who’s a prop. While Mako has just signed for Leicester, Billy’s been with the Wasps academy for a few years now and had some game time at the back end of this season. If you played Bristol academy then you could have faced either.

They may play different positions but they are both absolute tanks!

Nick H – i have old friends who play @ brive and Biaritz , one who is czech and the other british born nigerian. they got a lot of stick for being “english” in french clubs.

simuilarly, i know that mike catt, matt stevens all got/get banter for being Saffers in the england team by their fellow players & fans.

But its all friendly and taking offence to it is acknowledgement by the recipient that there is a problem.

I think its fine to have your opinion that saffers, kwiws shouldnt play for england.
Thats said the same die hard england fans dont realise they have a german royal family,so lets not look backward, its boring.

Afrer all, just think how average NZ would be if they didnt raid the south pacific!

On a lighter note i was just reading up on Mako ‘Billy’ Vunipola and realized i played against him (when he was playing for the Bristol academy) a few years ago and he is an absolute beast. Should be a fine prospect.

However I stand by my comment that the original remark was racist (I’m sure it wasn’t intended but I don’t believe it has to be conscious to be racist). I do not believe i have misconstrued the comment but perhaps we have different ideas of what racism is.

The foreign player debate is one that i have seen and discussed many times before. But i think people enter it far too lightly without contemplating the implications of what is a socio-political debate than means far more than rugby.

What we have to remember is that nations are socially constructed and not biological the word “thoroughbred” has implications of biology. This word contributes to a dominant discourse in our society that suggests certain people should be excluded from “imagined community” of our nation-state because of their race or heritage.

Migration is a pretty integral part of this global economy. With our colonial legacy we have to expect a diverse community (as Hutch points out). Identities are not a given or birth right but learned along the way. Mako has settled here I’m assuming the lad has citizenship so why wouldn’t he be allowed?

I’m a second year cultural studies student and I’ve just handed in an essay on the cultural politics of race and nation, so forgive me for getting all serious on this one.

there has been past discussion re over seas players etc hence the remark you highlight. Although i do note it could easily be miscontrued as you have done, but as said by huchtoid , we are friendly here.

And love of rugby is always the winner!